What I do when I should be studying...or not taking part in a Reality Television show
That joke will probably be on me
Published on July 10, 2004 By notsohighlyevolved In Politics
Firstly, you’ll have to excuse the title. Knowing the limited readership of my blog, I wanted a title that might actually attract some of the more conservative of you here on JU.

Secondly. What is the point of this article? Well it’s not really an article as such; it’s more of a curious exploration, an attempted mapping of JU’s conservative topography. I want to know what it is to be either conservative/right-wing. What beliefs and opinions are necessary, and to what extent is this political leaning an integral part of your personality? Is it something that happens within a communicative context, as a reaction to what you hear and see, or is it a set of a priori beliefs that interact with world events and attitudes; is it a philosophy that guides your reactions to the world, or a philosophy that is a reaction of a reaction to the world? (That sounds kinda funny, but what can you do, thoughts and questions often don’t get along all that well with the written word)

Personally I have come to think of the Right as a three pronged fork – economic rationalism, social conservatism and the idea of benevolent international intervention.

The first sees politics as a way of constructing and setting up a series of economic institutions that protects the ability of business to operate in an unfettered and truly Global fashion, seeing this as the only way that economic prosperity can be obtained for the greatest number of people, not necessarily all people. Other than this initial thrust (and this thrust is still in the making, the movement, the idea, still being young) the government should not intervene, other than in times when such a system is under direct threat, in times of economic or socio-political crisis. The market will dictate in a way and with an efficiency which is impossible for the individual mind or small collective, given the complexity of the modern world, where resources should be allocated and how they should be used. This extends to almost all facets of life – even healthcare, education and the care of the more needy.

The second sees politics as a way of shoring up the moral order that has taken our civilisation millennia to formulate and implement through the workings and refinements of philosophical, scientific and religious systems. It espouses the ideal of tolerance, but not the ideal of an equal footing for all philosophies and world views, one must triumph so that the social order remains stable, so that there is security in what has taken us so long to build and what has been proven to work in the past. Other points of view can exist but they must always remain at the level of the individual or small, politically non-partisan groups. I find this one tougher than the other two as pluralism and legitimacy has always been hard to reconcile, we always find ourselves receding to a moral infinity, a line without end or resolution.

The third sees politics as a way to both defend your own country and its borders, but also as a way of defending alliances and interests overseas. With a world that is so interconnected, to not intervene would be foolish and self defeating. In past lessons, to not act on foreign shores is to invite that threat onto your own. A proactive defence is the only defence and to involve yourself politically with the world and its institutions must necessarily mean that your military must be willing to follow.

Now you know my very simple framework for understanding the Right and I am aware that it’s somewhat unsophisticated and conventional, but, what I would like to know, as well as the questions asked at the beginning of this post, is if this is sufficient, or if it is too simplistic and if it will lead me astray when dealing with those that are hung to the Right rather than Left or Centre?

As a note: I know I should probably revisit some of the threads that have exploded on JU recently, but time is pressing and the amount spent on this has already cost enough.

Comments (Page 2)
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on Jul 11, 2004
What you are leaving out of the equation is that the administration sold the war as being about WMDs. Certainly many Americans agree with your motivations for war -- maybe to the point that, in their minds they don't really remember the dialogue leading up to war. The WMD argument swayed many people, who are now understandably unhappy that this justification for war turned out to be untrue -- and the claim that WMDs were irrelevant fans the flames of suspicion that the argument was a lie to begin with.


There was an interesting article in Vanity Fair recently about the lead up to the war. Basically it outlines the ideological battles between the neocons and, predominantly, Collin Powell when it came to the presentation of intel reports and other considerations to both congress and the American people. There where elements within the US administration that wanted to push the suspicion of the existence of WMD's and Iraqi complicity in the 9/11 attacks as reasons to use military means to oust Saddam from Iraq.

What interests me the most is the fact that most of the more strong armed neocons came from a relatively Liberal background, often from a particularly Jewish strain of liberalism, and it has been political philosophy that has informed and influenced them - namely the political philosophy of Leo Strauss, publications such as The Weekly Standard and the many Think Tanks that provide the acedemic foundations for the neocon movement.

The neocons are Machivellean to the extreme and very good at the utilisation of pretext and linguistic gymnastics to both gain power and influence power. It seems that their only rule of thumb is political expediency and that the principle that guides them is that men are not the products of history, history is shaped by the hands of willful men.

For some reason, i do not think that the men who lead the US on the path to war are all that concerned that their ruse has been discovered, that their pet project has been uncovered as the desire of a select few realised in the face of massive international and domestic opposition. These men have always been ready for opportunity to present itself. I think that conspiracy theories that consider the 9/11 attacks as a concoction formulated by anyone other than the perpetrators to be misleading. The neocons have patience, and unlike the left, they realise that you cannot create your own momentum, you wait for something to happen and use the favourable position you have created to influence the course of events thereafter.

The neocons have been shoring up their position in the upper echelons of power since the 60's. All we are seeing now is the payoff of calculated patience - they now have free range within the administration.

Marco
on Jul 11, 2004
i do not think that the men who lead the US on the path to war are all that concerned that their ruse has been discovered, that their pet project has been uncovered as the desire of a select few realised in the face of massive international and domestic opposition.
Agreed. I'm not sure about the Vanity Fair article's tying this to Jewish strains of liberalism -- that sounds like a reach -- but I agree that this administration used a ruse to accomplish what they wanted to accomplish all along, and that they are not very concerned that this has been uncovered.

When Draginol wrote:
Our support for the war had ntohign to do with WMDs. We wanted him gone for years.
the words "our" and "we" are a bit ambiguous. If he means the neocons, then he is right. If he means that Americans in general, he is obviously wrong. Arguments in favor of the war emphasized WMD. He says:
Now we have people who were against the war in the first place trying to claim that Bush led us into a war based on "lies".
I'm surprised he is surprised. When an administration makes its case for war based on WMD and then shows so little concern over the lack of finding WMD, people who were skeptical at the outset have every right to speak out and question motives and honesty.

on Jul 11, 2004
When an administration makes its case for war based on WMD and then shows so little concern over the lack of finding WMD, people who were skeptical at the outset have every right to speak out and question motives and honesty.


I am very interested to see how memory serves Americans on election day. I think along with a budget deficit, Bush has gone into the red with his honesty budget, way overdrawn. However, it is a shame that while a president is a visible target that can easily be thrown out of office (unfortunately, not before the damage is done), the advisors that occupy the White House are tenacious barnacles that are nigh impossible to dislodge. While the head is lopped off, the many arms of Kali keep on dancing.

Marco

on Jul 11, 2004
It is interesting, as has been pointed out numerous times on these threads, that things don't so easily sort out into "right and left" categories. I am, at once, one of the most liberal and one of he most conservative people I know. I just don't fit into a box politically.

As for mindset, I have to say, much of my political outlook is shaped by my faith. I believe it should be for all people, although I don't believe in using your faith to purchase votes.
on Jul 11, 2004

Don: Simply because you say a thing doesn't make it so.  I have yet to see someone who really supported the war based largely on the belief there were stockpiles of WMDs.

Unless you have some evidence to suport your assertion that Bush "sold" the war on WMDs, you're just giving your opinion. One which I disagree with.  WMD *programs* were definitely a major reason, one which I agree with.  People like me didn't want our sons going into a nuclear armed Iraq 10 years hence because we didn't do the job now. 

It wasn't the stockpiles, it was the (to us) obvious long term threat Saddam's Iraq represented.  The people who were against giong into Iraq are still against it except now they make claims like "The american people were misled".  Total bullshit. It's just a cynical attempt to retroactively justify their opposition to the war.   Half the country cannot be described as "neocons".  If you're WMD assertion was correct, then 90% of Americans would now think going into Iraq was a bad idea.

on Jul 12, 2004
The neocons have been shoring up their position in the upper echelons of power since the 60's. All we are seeing now is the payoff of calculated patience - they now have free range within the administration.
Says much about Bush the mascot in the White House. His lack of experience and knowledge allowed the Neos to come out of the closet and wage an unnecessary war to distract the people from the real issues.
on Jul 12, 2004
As opposed to stevendedalus, who thinks that true freedom is believing just as he believes...

I love how leftists believe in Democracy only so far as they are in the majority, and then suddenly it is dangerous and everyone needs to see things the way they do or freedom itself is endangered.

The word "neocon" is spat in the same empty-headed way that "commie" was in the 50's. Lets just pretend for a minute that everyone of every bent has the right to take part in the political system, even if you don't agree with them, mmkay? Suddenly, they aren't dangerous insurgents, they are just people who differ with you, and who wins is just an excercise in freedom.

We seem to be blooming a nice little breed of totalitarian to tell us all that our freedom is only really freedom if we do just what they tell us to do.
on Jul 12, 2004
Are you telling us that the advisors and members of the administration that influenced the decision to go to war are not neoconservative. Does neoconservatism not exist? I only used the term becasue it is a word that sums up a political position and philosophy that has been explicitly delineated and articulated by those who believe in it and those who use it as a guide for their political practice. There is no moral judgment implyed in the use of the word as a handle for a particular political faction of like minded individuals. In my eyes the words communist or neoconservative are not insults, they are nouns that make it easier for us to classify and understand. They are all the more fitting when those being described and classified by the word are self confessed practioners of that particular political philosophy, are people who partake in think tanks and publications that are publicly known as neoconservative strong holds.

The neocons have shown themselves to be formidable politicans and wielders of power. They are shrewd, experienced, well organised, and have a maintain that they can articulate and argue (something severely lacking from the Left, not that i think the Left in the States exists in any actual, effective sense, unless you mean actors and novelists getting drunk in a Manhattan loft ). They are men that do not wait for history to to happen, but write it and laugh while the journalists think they are.

love how leftists believe in Democracy only so far as they are in the majority, and then suddenly it is dangerous and everyone needs to see things the way they do or freedom itself is endangered.


I have never questioned their right to be in power, but in a democracy, i have a right to question how they use that power.

Marco
on Jul 12, 2004
I was mainly addressing Steve's "out of the closet" statement.

Sure, and if they are elected, and they don't serve as you like, you have the right to vote them out of power. The way most people address them, though, implies they are a threat and somehow shouldn't be eligble for power. I'm just tired of the word "neocon" being used as some ominous threat, just as "commie" was used in the mid-20th century.

I think most people would agree that it was wrong to scandalize and make communism at scary conspiracy, and I think the whole "anti-Neocon" phenomenon is quite similar. Post #21 sounds ominous, doesn't it? There might be a Neocon under Steve's bed, too. woooooo.... skeery.
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